If this new study below does not force
the whining pity factories of the
VSO's now to shut up and sit down
on the issue of PTSD, then I don't
know what will.

Pain and suffering has always been
tied to poor income circumstances. I
know this as a VA doctor wrote this
in a disability letter for me to enter
the SSD system with, and it's something
that the VA works overtime to hide,
ignore, and conceal.

Obviously if the blame for human torture
and patient abuse was placed squarely
on the bungled and incompetent VA Raters
and VSO's for causing extreme and
unnecessary POVERTY, then they would
all have nothing at all to grandstand
about when wars arise, Get It ??

This study and related article below
is tied to one of the many hidden truths
and secrets which have been misapplied
to PTSD all in the name of perpetuating
a fakers "cottage industry" so that they
can all grandstand on war.

It's all about POVERTY, Stupid so get
over your dumb and sorry selves! Stop
suckering into every line of BULL that
the VA puts out.

___________________________________________





Millions of Americans in Chronic Pain


Friday, May. 02, 2008 By KATHLEEN KINGSBURY
Scott Olson / GettyArticle

Nursing a migraine today? New research shows you're not alone. More than a quarter of Americans suffer daily pain, a condition that costs the U.S. about $60 billion a year in lost productivity. And how often you're in pain depends largely on the size of your paycheck.


Americans in households making less than $30,000 a year spend nearly 20% of their lives in moderate to severe pain, compared with less than 8% of people in households earning above $100,000, according to a landmark study on how Americans experience in pain. The findings, published Thursday in the British journal the Lancet, also found that participants who hadn't finished high school reported feeling twice the amount of pain as college graduates. "To a significant extent, pain does separate the classes," says Princeton economist Alan Krueger, who authored the study along with Dr. Arthur Stone, a psychiatry professor at Stony Brook University.

Krueger notes that the type of pain people reported typically fell on either side of the rich-poor divide. "Those with higher incomes welcome pain almost by choice, usually through exercise," he says. "At lower incomes, pain comes as the result of work." Indeed, Krueger and Stone found that blue-collar workers felt more pain, from physical labor or repetitive motion, while on the job than off, which at least offers hope that the problem can be mitigated. This finding "emphasizes the need for pain preventing measures [in the workplace] such as better ergonomics," wrote Juha H.O. Turunen, a professor of social pharmacy at Finland's University of Kuopio, in an accompanying commentary to the report.

People with chronic pain also worked less, the new study found, costing U.S. businesses as much as $60 billion annually. These conclusions are in line with previous studies on productivity lost to common pain conditions, including a 2003 report finding that nearly 15% of the U.S. workforce's output was diminished by ailments such as headaches and arthritis. What's new in Kruger and Stone's study, however, is the level of detail with which the researchers were able to chronicle the lives of Americans in pain. With the help of the polling firm Gallup, they asked nearly 4,000 survey participants to diarize their daily activities over a 24-hour period. From these personal accounts, the researchers saw the impact pain had on people's emotional states. Though participants said interacting with a spouse or friend lowered their pain, those suffering chronic pain tended to socialize much less. They also spent a lot more time watching television�about 25% of their day compared with 16% for the average person.

Pain also appeared to be a major driver of healthcare costs. Krueger and Stone found that Americans spent about $2.6 billion in over-the-counter pain medications and another nearly $14 billion on outpatient analgesics in 2004, the most recent data available. But in these numbers, too, there may be a distinction between the haves and the have-nots. A 2005 study in Michigan showed that minorities and the poor have less access to such drugs than wealthier Americans because local pharmacies don't stock enough pain medications such as oxycodone or morphine. "Those [pharmacies] in white ZIP codes were more than 13 times more likely to have sufficient supplies," says lead researcher Dr. Carmen Green, an anesthesiology professor at the University of Michigan. "I have patients who have to drive 30 miles or more just to get their pain medications."

One characteristic that pain doesn't seem to distinguish is gender: according to Krueger and Stone's study, men and women were nearly equally likely to find themselves in pain. Another is age. People reported more aches and pains as they got older, though surprisingly that pain tended to plateau from ages 45 to 75. "Maybe people reach a point in their career where they move up the ladder into a desk job," Krueger says. "Or maybe they've just learned how to cope with the pain."

____________________________________________
END of GETTY Wire Service Release

REPLY:

Well go back and look at your first post
and also go back and read the article again.

This is your second attempt to redefine the
meaning of the article.

The article and study that went with it,
had no connection to PTSD and had no connection
to Disability either. This is what YOU
brought to the table, not the study which
was the original topic of the article.

People CAN hold jobs and still be even
more impoverished than Vets receiving
100% VA Comp. Just in case ya didn't catch
that.

You insist on trying to take the meaning
of the original study into places where
it never went to begin with.

Poverty manifests physical pain. That
was the end of what the study spoke
to.

I explained why income is a factor -- people who are disabled can't hold down a job. I am not sure how that is advocating a bum-nation.

Problem is, there the VA is there to help those who have problems -- it is not a $2,527 a month pension for life just because you did the job you signed up to do.

Of course, more 'disabled' veterans means more revenue for the VSOs. Then there are others who thrive for the VA being the source of all evil, thus they champion the most questionable of all claims, then claim how the VA discriminates against the veteran.

The people who are getting the shaft are those who get 10-20% more than the guy missing body parts because of an ENTITLEMENT-NATION. And nobody, nobody cares about them. We cut off all the wannabes and crybabies, then the guys who lost arms, legs, or are a complete wreck can start to get real compensation for their sacrifice.

REPLY:

Pal, you wouldn't know "logic" if it
bit you in the ass.

That's the reality check I am giving
you here.

We are done with the Bum-Nation that a lot
of you are perpetuating out here
without ever thinking about the consequences.

That's my message to you.

I don't think that sort of name calling is really appropriate for discussions about serious issues such as this. I'd rather have an advocate who used logic instead of emotion.

REPLY TO BEELZABUB:

You are trying to manipulate the meaning of
this piece to suit your own misguided theory.

Income effects pain without and no trace
of PTSD and that is the meaning of the article.

Now getting to your own story, I'm not
gonna go there with ya. We are never told
who, and what, Billy, Bob, and Joe were
BEFORE they entered the military or where
they came from or what they were pulling
off civilian life before ever even swearing
in under the oath. Too too many of these
cases have a Loser history before ever
putting on the uniform, and it's the bleeding
heart theorists like yourself who always
get it wrong.

You will have a hard time bringing me
to your side of the argument on this one,
because I have seen many, many and many
Medal of Honor recipient types in my life,
and those who should have been, who
are doing well and leading full lives
with happy wives, wonderful children,
very nice homes and are not in some freaking
slophouse in a shelter for their ENTIRE
lives, nice cars, living a prestigious and well
recognized life doing books, commissions,
advocacy on Capitol Hill, and becomming
the MAN of their communities that the
military prepared them to be.

I reject these lifetime Bum parades,
some of who never even saw combat thank
you very much, who are making an odessy
of bum shelters and hobo life and converting
their entire towns into a Begger-Nation
while the REAL Valor cases are out there
are getting it done and flashing their
medals with pride.

I'm all for somebody hitting a temporary
bad spot in their lives, for sure. We've
all been there, and most of the time it
was in the first decade after leaving the
service. But to stay there a lifetime and
make a relentless chain of excuses why
you can never pull yourself out and RECOVER
is just plain BULL and that's how I see
it as do many women Veterans.

You men all talk as if we were never
involved in anything in the military,
and we are here to tell ya today,
clean up your dam game, pull yourself
up out of the Pity-Factories and the
Slop-Houses and move on with your lives
because the only ones who are holding
yourselves back is all of YOU. There
really is recovery after the military
and 50 year old Bums are NOT the identity
that the rest of us want to take on
for our population.

Anybody with a brain will tell you
that you have mental illness on board,
and then indulge in any substance addiction
on top of it, then the problem is YOURS
to own and not the PTSD. Start living
like a MAN I say and get into the system
and get help, and only then will the wife,
the job, and the happy family emerge.

They don't need Bleeding Heart types like
you fabricating every excuse under the sun
for them to keep them where they are.

Some are just plain Sniffle-Butts and really
do need to get over themselves. Others need
a push with one hand, and a spanking with
the other to get it done.

Whatever!-- but we are done out here with the
Blank Checks to Bumhood and the falsity of
excuse theories that goes with it. There
are too many of the REAL Valor cases proving
every which way, Sen. John McCain included,
and who are showing the public every single
day that it CAN be done and ought to be.

Oops, I got Bob and Joe mixed up halfway through the story. Still, I think you can see where I am going with it.

PTSD is linked to the income -- that is a fact. Let's just look at Joe and Bob who were both at Khe Sanh.

Joe got a job at Ford in 1970 and has worked there until 2000. During those 30 years he made made a solid wage and now has a good retirement.

Bob came and went to a community college, dropped out, and went to work at a grocery store. He worked there until 1973, where he got fired for missing to much work. Bob spent the next two years at home drunk, while his wife worked. He got a job at a steel mill in 1975, but that lasted six months. Between 1975 and 1980 he worked over twenty jobs, but kept being fired for disorderly conduct, drinking, and attendence. In 1981 Bob's wife divorced him because he was violent. Between 1980 and 1985 Bob managed to go through five more jobs, but was fired from his last one becuase he failed a drug test. Bob had started using drugs. In 1986 Bob called Joe up and they went to see Oliver Stone's platoon. It was then Bob realized he had not ever left Vietnam.

In 1987 Bob files a claim for PTSD with the VA. In 1989 Bob is awarded PTSD on a remanded appeal.

Bob never left Vietnam. His failure to find a good job, his addition to alcohol and drugs, and his ruined marriage were all related to PTSD. Bob has been receiving 100% disability pay since 1989, has managed to buy a modest home, and still goes to therapy. His children went to college in 1991 where they got the college degree Bob never had a chance. He even manages to keep in touch with his ex-wife who has no remarried. Bob is doing okay, even though he still has nightmares about Khe Sanh, he gets by with his $2,527 per month.

Now Joe, Joe never had these problems that Bob had. Joe owns a nice four bedroom house, owns a 1969 Mustang, and he and his wife put their three kids through college. For over thirty years Bob made a good living. He started on the floor and eventually made it up to being a supervisor. He even paid for Bob's movie ticket when they went to see Platoon. In addition to making a decent salary, Bob now has a retirement in excess of $2,000 a month. Bob still has $700,000 in his IRA.

In 2002, after retiring from Ford, Bob saw a TV report on PTSD. Bob files a claim for PTSD, but it is denied. He has had his claim in the appeals system for six years now, and he hates the VA because they denied him his claim. Bob was at Khe Sanh just like Joe. Bob saw the same things Joe saw. Bob lost his friends just like Joe.

Nobody denies Bob was at Khe Sanh, or the sacrifice he made, or the friends he lost. Problem is, Bob doesn't have PTSD. Unlike Joe, Bob moved on, whereas Joe never left.

PTSD is real. But see, Bob wasn't affected like Joe. Joe never had the opportunity to work, save, and collect a retirement. That $2,527 is all that Joe has, and it is all Joe will ever have.

This is how PTSD and income are related. Bob wasn't denied because he had more income than Joe; Bob was denied because he didn't have PTSD, shown by the fact he had a stable job for 30 years.

Billy was at Khe Sanh too. Billy lost both of his hands when the claymore he was ordered to set malfunctioned. Billy really had left part of himself in Vietnam. Now Billy gets $2,800 a month; a pitance bit more more than Joe gets from the VA. Unlike Joe, Billy never made a dime since he got evacuated -- he never even got to have children because he didn't think a woman would want to be with a cripple. Billy never went to see Platoon because he's in Vietnam every night in his nightmares. Billy doesn't even talk to Joe or Bob because Billy is afraid of the memories it will unleash.

Some people are very vocal about veteran rights. What is right in Billy being paid $150 per hand he lost, over what Joe makes? Why doesn't Billy get what Joe gets, plus the amount Stacey (who developed breast cancer 9 months into her peacetime assignment) who had a double mamectomy. What is right in advocating for people like Bob who never had a problem until they saw PTSD on a TV report? How can Bob getting $2,527 be justified when Billy gets $2,800.

It would be nice if people advocated for Billy, instead of just Bob and sometimes Joe.

Billy is the one that is forgotten. He collects his paycheck, watches TV, and takes his diabetes medication in isolation, without a voice in the system, because he doesn't want to deal with the government that produced a faulty claymore -- meanwhile, people are too busy trying to take care of Billy and Joe.